Dilemma: Grass is Greener Edition

"Arrivederci" (arrividerci) 12/07/2016 at 07:53 • Filed to: None

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Greetings fellow Oppos, I come to you seeking advice !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . I apologize in advance that this is going to be a wall of text post, because for whatever reason Kinja doesn’t allow me to upload or link pictures any longer (using Chrome Version 49.0.2623.87 m if anybody has any ideas), and I want to give you a complete background to help you understand where I’m coming from.

Anyway – my lovely wife, who has more financial sensibility that I probably ever will, has temporarily canned my idea for snagging a used Porsche. She’s ultimately right, both financially and logistically, having a third car doesn’t make sense right now (limited parking space) and DD-ing the Porsche isn’t what I really want to do. My ultimate goal, probably like many of you, is to have a fun DD, but at the same time, have something a little special for the weekends. Carrera S, Cayman GTS, Corvette GS, GT350, etc. Something that, while unlikely to ever be a legit “classic”, could still be a kickass family heirloom of sorts.

Stepping back in time, I had a NC Miata. I was happy with it and it was a great car. I put nearly 100,000 miles on it in four years, largely due to a 60 mile daily commute. It was also fun and trouble-free. Then life happened and I got divorced. All of a sudden, the little Miata didn’t seem practical enough and moving out of my house (with garage) meant the little guy would be parked out in the elements. It was already at 100k+ miles at that point and about seven years old, but looked awesome thanks to being garaged. After letting it sit outside for a couple months, I decided I needed to get something else better suited to my new life, and something that didn’t have my ex-wife’s name on the title as well.

Winter of 2012 I found and purchased a CPO Lexus IS250 with the manual transmission. It was everything the Miata wasn’t – comfortable, quiet, exuded quality, upscale ownership experience, etc. For a few months, I was happy. Then, as they often do, all the cracks in my preconception started to form, grow and eventually shatter. It was a dog, the manual transmission was garbage and it wasn’t really any nicer than an Accord with equivalent options. I hated driving it and hated myself for selling my Miata down the river to get it. Shit.

Met an awesome girl in late summer 2013 and, at roughly our first anniversary of dating, with her (unnecessary) blessing, I decided to move on from the Lexus. I looked around for all sorts of cars, coming damn close to buying a 997.1 Cabriolet (still think I should’ve), but refused to take a loss on the stupid Lexus that I only owned for 18 months. Generally speaking, owning a car that short of a timeframe is going to result in you having a bad time, unless you put a ton of cash down. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , but they were either too expensive, beat up, or sold before I got there. I then considered alternatives, and checked out the Subaru BRZ – it follows the ethos of my beloved Miata, but seemed a little more serious and precise, two keen attributes of the Cayman S that I loved. Of course it was underpowered, but so was the Miata, and you can’t use all that oomph on the street (legally) anyway.

So I had my mark, which was sweetened by the fact that the manufacturer was running a 0% promotion at the end of 2014. I contacted every Subi dealer in my state to find a great leftover 2014 Limited model for a great price that would give me at least payoff on the Lexus, finally locating one after about a month of searching.

I admit, I’m happy with the car, but it has been a little taxing. I’ve gotten to meet a great group of local enthusiasts, used it to get wonderful track experiences and fully participate in autocross. The car has helped me become a better driver and has been nothing but mechanically sound. That said, the cracks are beginning to show again – the horrible paint, the cheap build quality, the lack of power despite spending wayyyyy too much. The regret of wondering what else I could’ve spent $25k+ on. Ugh.

I married that awesome girl who has been very understanding, if not completely supportive of my hobby and, over the course of the last two years, the BRZ has become rather extensively modified (to STX standards). Problem is, each modification to make it perform a little better has had the side-effect of making it ride more harshly, louder or less efficient. I loved the power of E85 (over 200whp), but fuel economy is dismal, and it’s likely rotting the lines from the inside out. At this point, I really don’t want to further modify the car as long as it’s my daily. The BRZ is fun to drive when you can wring it out on a twisty road, but on a commute in its modified fashion it’s a bit of a pill. The car being constantly loud and the relative lack of comfort really have worn on me over time.

Since my overarching goal is to have something that I consider special that would be a weekend/nice day/HPDE/etc car, I realize that at some point I’ll need a good DD, which finally brings me to the point of this extremely long post. I’m starting to wonder if I should play the long game and get out of the BRZ and get into something that’s a good DD now, and will continue being a good DD for many years to come. Fellow Oppos have posted about how inexpensive new GTIs are now, possibly as a bi-product of Dieselgate and VW wanting to move cars. It’s easy to find a base model for $19k, or a Sport or SE for a few thousand more. Reliability jokes aside, they aren’t nearly as bad as they used to be and from my casual sleuthing, the Mk7 seems pretty immune from widespread problems once they got that turbo issue under control very early in the model cycle.

The GTI would still allow me to compete in autocross, albeit in GS instead of STX. I highly doubt I would modify it beyond possibly a tune, a set of wheels/tires for autocross days and a rear swaybar. Even with a swaybar and tune, it should be just as quiet a stock example and ride as smoothly, a stark contrast to my BRZ. Clearly it’ll be a nicer commuter, but probably not quite as engaging a drive or as competitive in autocross (I won my class for the season in STX). But hey, challenge is good in that regard, right?

From a financial standpoint, switching up in cars is almost always a stupid decision, and this one would be as well. I’ve got the BRZ on a 0% loan and the best VW is offering right now is 1.9%, which still isn’t bad. I currently owe about $16k on the Subaru and have been overpaying my note to try and get right-side-up on it. I know that a dealer isn’t going to give me what I need on trade and the way to maximize the BRZ’s value is to part out the modifications (probably about $4k in collective used value) and sell the car as stock as possible privately. If I could sell it for $17k privately and the mods (over time, obviously) for $4k, that’d be a combined value of $21k against the new $19k (+tax) GTI (a little more if trying to go for the Sport or SE). Additionally, with the GTI, I’d be moving up three model years to a 2017 and down 31,000 miles.

I brought up my idea to my wife who pretty much shot it down, noting the fact that I owe less on the Subaru, it’s running fine, and the loan on it is free money (0%). I reminded her that the GTI would be more comfortable, can be had with DSG so the possibility exists that we could both drive it (she hasn’t learned stick yet) and it would have enough utility that we wouldn’t have to take her car everywhere (she has a Nissan Rogue). I pointed out the fact that the GTI can easily baby when that time comes, something not quite as easy in the BRZ with its tiny backseat. A rear-facing car seat in the BRZ basically renders the front passenger seat useless, whereas the GTI has enough space to use both. Not to mention loading in and out is much easier in a four-door.

She’s still rightfully dubious of all this and harbors the fear that I’ll want to swap again in a couple years. I’m not so sure that I would, unless the GTI turns out to be an unreliable heap. I think it would suit my goal of having a DD that’s not a penalty box, but a car that I could own for a number of years and have paid for by the time I can get something awesome to drive on the weekend and finally share miles with the GTI. I honestly do think I would miss the BRZ in time, and my biggest fear is that I would regret getting rid of it as much as I do the Miata. That said, the BRZ isn’t going to be the weekend/nice day/HPDE/etc, because I don’t consider it special, so I don’t see how it can ever fill that role. I highly doubt my wife, as understanding as she is, will ever be on board with me having a DD, the BRZ and then a weekend/nice day/HPDE/etc car all in the stable.

My wife wants to revisit the idea in a few weeks, but I’m not entirely sure my mind is going to change. I’m not going to do anything if she’s not completely on board, but what would you do in my shoes? Knowing my past, would I regret moving on from the BRZ? Or would this be a good step to finally being able to have a plan to get a great heirloom/forever-type car in the fold?

450X_FTW > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 07:55

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for the Kinja pictures, I had the same problem the other day. Only way I was able to have pictures upload and stay in the post, were if I saved the file to my computer and uploaded it, versus copy and pasting

random001 > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 08:09

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Test drove a GTI, hated it. No personality. Keep the BRZ, add in a supercharger.

bob and john > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 08:12

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you are a car guy. there is no such thing as a forever car.

even if you ever get something TRULY crazy/special (like an F40) after a few months (or a year, or three) you sell because its not as comfy and doesn’t get used as much and its crazy expensive.

I wouldn’t change it. the BRZ is free money as you say. Might as well keep it until its paid off, and see whats its like WITHOUT a car payment.

if you still want one, go for whatever suits your fancy then.

also, “could be had with a DSG” yea, but you arent going to buy one with a DSG. its a several thousand $ option which then blows your budget out of the water.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 08:25

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If you want a more comfy ride for a DD change some of the suspension back to stock and sell the parts (or keep them in case you want to go back in the future).

Don’t worry about E85, it’s not going to “rot” the lines. Ethanol is an issue with older cars because it pulls moisture out of the air and the fuel tanks are steel, everything is plastic these days.

I’d keep the BRZ, keep paying it off, then worry about a car that will baby once that time comes.

Arrivederci > bob and john 12/07/2016 at 08:32

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Fair points all, but the DSG-equipped cars aren’t thousands more. Here’s one for $20k . (AT Car ID AT-1A49CBC4 in case link is dead).

Arrivederci > random001 12/07/2016 at 08:33

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I’ve yet to drive one - so that’s on my to do list. I’ve heard both reports - some say it’s completely numb, others say it’s refined and a ball of fun when you want it to be.

LongbowMkII > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 08:34

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Keep the BRZ. Every sideways move takes you further from your goal. Since you’re at 0% Make your payments and just save the rest extra you would pay. At the end of your note you’ll have a small extra down payment.

Unless autox has vastly changed(been a while), a tune would take you from GS to a prepared class.

bob and john > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 08:37

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in canada the DSG is a 2K option. soo yea.

also, by the time you add taxes, registration, and other fees and crap, that 20K is suddenly closer to 21 or 22

Stapleface > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 08:54

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As already mentioned, you’re never going to be happy if you’re a car guy. I’ve had 4 new cars in 6 years, because I keep searching for something that I’m just not getting. Granted, my cars haven’t been that exciting, but the point still remains that nothing will make me happy. I assume the same can be said of you. Really it seems the only thing that held your interest was the NC. So, that would probably be the only thing I would consider getting rid of the BRZ for.

Otherwise, it’s a lateral move at best and you’re just digging an ever bigger hole with financing.

random001 > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 08:57

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I’d probably lean it towards too refined to be a ball of fun. I admit, though, that a lot of that could be attributed to the stock tires. Not sure what it had on there, but it’s nothing I would ever pick. Ever. Turn in was a bog, not the snappy go for it I had been told to expect. It revved nicely, I drove the manual and you could heel toe well, and rev match was easy, but it just felt like it wasn’t any fun until you were way the hell out of safe. Not something I wanted for a DD, ya know?

Arrivederci > random001 12/07/2016 at 09:24

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Thanks for the feedback - I might try to get to the local VW dealer this weekend to try out a manual and DSG.

Arrivederci > bob and john 12/07/2016 at 09:25

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Yep - taxes and fees have to be considered as well. Also, if I do sell the BRZ privately, that means more taxes would have to be paid on the VW.

Arrivederci > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 12/07/2016 at 09:27

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The only additions to the suspension that make it ride more harshly are the springs. I went with TRD since they’re OE on the RS and tuned to make the car rotate a little more (good in AutoX). Removing them would make the ride a little less choppy, but this thing rides like a wagon in stock form too, lol.

bob and john > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 09:31

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you see, this is why I love bikes. so much cheaper. AND i can store 6 of them in a 1 car garage.

Arrivederci > LongbowMkII 12/07/2016 at 09:31

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That’s a fair point as well - I guess my thought process was that in about three years I’ll have a paid for BRZ. However, with as low as these GTIs are now, in four years I could have a paid for DD. Yes, the BRZ will get me out of a car note one year sooner, but then I’ll need to get a DD and from the way my wife and I are talking, it’s more likely that we’ll have a little Arrivederci in the household by that time.

Yes, at that point, I would owe even less on the BRZ and it would be easier to sell at a profit, but I’d be that much further removed from my goal on a timeframe, unless I get a really cheap DD, which is also an option.

Arrivederci > bob and john 12/07/2016 at 09:32

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I’d love a bike, but my wife would definitely divorce me. She’d be team used Porsche loooooooooong before a bike :).

bob and john > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 09:37

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then use that to your advantage...

you “Holy, you are right, its not worth selling the BRX and getting a porsche or Gti. too much money”
her: phew
you: so I have decided to get a motorcycle! better thrills for cheaper!
her: BACK TO THE PORSCHE, BACK TO THE PORSCHE. WHAT COLOR DO YOU WANT?!?!

Its a bargaining tactic. basically ask for WAY more then you want, and suddenly what you want actually seems really reasonable. and you ‘compromise’ and get it :)

Arrivederci > Stapleface 12/07/2016 at 09:39

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I did love my NC and would like to have another someday, but it falls in the same camp as the BRZ, which I already have. I guess my thought process for this whole idea was that in about three years I’ll have a paid for BRZ. However, with as low as these GTIs are now, in four years I could have a paid for DD. Yes, the BRZ will get me out of a car note one year sooner, but then I’ll need to get a DD and from the way my wife and I are talking, it’s more likely that we’ll have a little Arrivederci in the household by that time.

All told it may be an additional year of a financial hole, but that year would buy three model years newer and 31,000 fewer miles plus netting a DD at the expense of something I didn’t consider a weekend car anyway. In three years when the BRZ is paid off, it’ll have about 72,000 miles on it. Still lots of life, but the GTI would have 55,000 when paid off.

Arrivederci > 450X_FTW 12/07/2016 at 09:39

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Thanks! I’ll give that a try.

Arrivederci > bob and john 12/07/2016 at 09:40

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LOL! I like the way you think.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 10:15

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Kinja’d here too. Neither upload nor link works for me.

You might consider a WRX (not the STI). It has the horsepower the BRZ lacks, has plenty of room to baby, and rides well enough to drive daily. I’ve driven the STI on the same roads I drive my WRX and I my spine is thankful that I bought the friendlier car.

MyJeepGetsStuckInTheSnow > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 10:31

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Your wife is right. The way you are spending money on cars is horribly irresponsible when talking about a DD. The point of a DD is to be cheap (~5k or less paid in full) and reliable. Buy a shitty 10 year old Carolla and drive it till it dies (keep up on maintenance but when the transmission slips or motor looses compression or the body rusts so bad you can see the road let it go). Wash, rinse, repeat. Save the money you would be using on a high payment and interest for buying your nice weekend car.

If you don’t own a house, are still paying on a DD, and thinking about having a kid there is no way in hell you can afford a second car. 20k for a DD is crazy. Switching it every couple years is even worse.

Arrivederci > MyJeepGetsStuckInTheSnow 12/07/2016 at 10:59

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Fair and honest take as well. My thought on the GTI would be that it would be my only car for at least five-eight years and then remain DD as I got something nicer at that point. In five-eight years, it’ll be worth roughly what an old Corolla would be, but at least I would know its background and maintenance.

MyJeepGetsStuckInTheSnow > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 12:04

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If you can 100% stick to that plan, your income is high, your retirement (20-25% of your income) is fully funded and you have no debt (including negative equity) whatsoever then this is an acceptable option. Keep in mind that a ~$19k GTI will need to last as long as four to five ~$5k hoopties just to break even. Personally I prefer to drive a bunch of really cheap cars as DD’s (currently a 98 civic I bought for $500) while saving for my dream car. It’s a whole lot of fun.

Good luck. I can understand the pull of a new car.

Arrivederci > MyJeepGetsStuckInTheSnow 12/07/2016 at 12:19

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Given my history, I can see how my wife and you and the other posters are dubious as to whether or not I could stick to that plan, LOL.

MyJeepGetsStuckInTheSnow > Arrivederci 12/07/2016 at 13:16

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Lol, yeah. Look at it this way. Would you rather own newer DD’s and trade them in every couple years but never be able to afford the weekend car you really want or drive hilariously shitty DD’s but have your beloved Porche in the garage waiting for you to come home? It depends on your commute and how much you would enjoy the weekend car for sure. It is not an easy decision.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > random001 12/07/2016 at 14:38

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Interesting take. I bought my GTI and have found it to be just fine to drive. It does understeer a bit more than I would like, but I have seen plenty of people able to remedy that with better springs and a stiffer ARB in back. I appreciate the refinement and classiness of the interior.

I replaced a 2002 SVT Focus with 111k on the clock. I had changed the exhaust as the factory system rusted through, as well as the clutch and flywheel. I upgraded to a single-mass Al flywheel and if I had it to do all over again would have just used the factory system. The return spring in the clutch kit was way too heavy. And the reduced mass made shifting smoothly impossible. It was also really loud and vibrated everywhere. The SVT does rotate nicely when cornering and I miss that about it.

My GTI has the performance package which might make the driving experience a little more fun. I can say that when I changed to my 18x8 summer wheels and tires, it makes a huge difference in how much more tossable the car is.

I did test drive the FiST and BRZ before deciding on the GTI. I drove the BRZ three separate times; three separate cars as well. I liked it less after each drive. Too harsh a ride and it rotates too quickly for me. I haven’t had much experince with a RWD car and did not want every drive to work to be a drifting lesson. I really wanted to like the BRZ, but it just wasn’t for me.

The FiST is a riot. But I disliked the huge lag in 1st gear. The 1-2 shift felt like I was just along for the ride and not in control of the car. The interior felt very small, and I hated the layout. And that’s coming from a 2002 Focus which has a notoriously busy button layout.

Both are great vehicles. But I appreciate the more grown-up and reserved nature of the GTI over both of them.

random001 > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 12/07/2016 at 16:38

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Yeah, it’s obviously a great car for a lot of people. I just went in wanting it to be the fun, engaging car I’d heard about, and left disappointed. The WRX was much better in every way to the expectations I had. So I bought neither, of course...